{"id":20162,"date":"2015-05-12T18:50:29","date_gmt":"2015-05-12T23:50:29","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/tigermedianet.com\/?p=20162"},"modified":"2017-08-14T10:47:51","modified_gmt":"2017-08-14T15:47:51","slug":"talking-democracy-2015-episode-3","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/tigermedianet.com\/?p=20162","title":{"rendered":"Talking Democracy 2015 (Episode #3)"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"su-vimeo su-responsive-media-yes\"><iframe loading=\"lazy\" width=\"500\" height=\"280\" src=\"\/\/player.vimeo.com\/video\/127520772?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0&color=ffffff&autoplay=0&dnt=0&muted=0\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"true\"><\/iframe><\/div>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nJason Reigel, water conservation specialist for the city of Hays.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nThat&#8217;s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nHow does somebody get into water?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nWater conservation, it&#8217;s a forefront issue. It&#8217;s a keynote issue in Hays. I&#8217;ve been\u00a0in municipal utility for my whole working career. There&#8217;s so many moving parts\u00a0to municipal utility. There&#8217;s a perceived abundance or an expectation that\u00a0everything&#8217;s going to work right with underground utilities all the time, and\u00a0sometimes that&#8217;s not the case. There&#8217;s a lot of moving parts that take a drop of\u00a0water that leaves the Smoky Hill Aquifer to make it to your tap. There&#8217;s a lot of\u00a0moving parts there. As far as water conservation goes, it&#8217;s a keynote issue in\u00a0Hays, and something I&#8217;m proud to be on board to help promote and keep the\u00a0ball rolling from what Hays has already done for years and years and years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nYou&#8217;re from western Kansas though originally, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nRight, I am. I&#8217;m from Great Bend originally, born and raised there. Moved to\u00a0Lawrence to attend the University of Kansas about 12 years ago.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nTo study water or that kind of stuff?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nTo study psychology actually. I&#8217;m a psychology &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nPsychology.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nYep. I&#8217;m a psych major.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nHow&#8217;d you get from there to here?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nAfter I graduated from the University of Kansas, my first job was with the utilities\u00a0department with the city of Lawrence. It was actually working night shift at the\u00a0water and wastewater plant and doing plant operations, plant maintenance,\u00a0stuff like that. With a psych degree to working night shift, it doesn&#8217;t make a\u00a0whole lot of sense, but it&#8217;s a rewarding career. There&#8217;s a rewarding start in\u00a0something that I fell in love with, municipal utility, because it&#8217;s an invisible thing.\u00a0Nobody can see water lines. Nobody can see sewer lines, so it&#8217;s sometimes a\u00a0forgotten part of the community.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nSo you started with the job you got, right? Then &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nYeah, exactly, exactly. I was there for eight years at the city of Lawrence. Then\u00a0my wife and I got the opportunity to move closer to family and relocate to Hays.\u00a0We were familiar with Hays. I have family in Hays. So we were stoked to get into\u00a0town. Lawrence has two water sources, the Clinton Lake and then the [Carr\u00a000:03:23] River. Well, Clinton Lake had a [inaudible 00:03:24] outbreak. It causes\u00a0a taste and odor issue in the water. We were looking at how can we &#8230;? It was\u00a0causing issues, taste and odor, and we said how can we &#8230;? I&#8217;m losing it here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWere there issues in Lawrence that raised the possibility of coming to Hays? Was\u00a0that &#8230;?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nThere were. We had an issue at the Clinton Lake water treatment plant in\u00a0Lawrence with an outbreak in taste and odor. It was an algae bi-product. It was\u00a0during the drought of 2011, 2012, which hit Hays particularly hard too. We&#8217;re\u00a0looking at water rationing. The director of utilities is also from &#8230; He&#8217;s from\u00a0Ellinwood. He&#8217;s also a western Kansas guy. He said we need to look at what Hays&#8230; What does Hays do?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWas water rationing the project you got established with at Lawrence?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nCertainly when I took an interest in what was going on in Hays. Then when the\u00a0opportunity came to relocate, to take a position as water conservation specialist,\u00a0the first one that I&#8217;m aware of, first conservation specialist in the state, I was\u00a0excited to jump on board.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat does it mean when you&#8217;re the first water conservation specialist in a place?\u00a0Do you have to invent your job?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nYeah, you do. I think Hays is unique in the sense that there&#8217;s not a lot of other\u00a0counties or cities with our populous that have to worry so much about their\u00a0water source, and it&#8217;s been a long time coming. &#8220;Wild Bill&#8221; Hickok stopped too\u00a0early. I don&#8217;t know where he found water, a [inaudible 00:05:05] water source,\u00a0but he found it somewhere. It&#8217;s probably dry by now. It is an important\u00a0component to the community. It identifies the community. Hays is the best in\u00a0the state, and they want to continue to be the best in the state.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nYou came here to be the city of Hays&#8217; water conservation specialist?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nThat&#8217;s correct.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nDid anything surprise you when you got here?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nMy biggest surprise, I think, was how engaged citizens and our customers are\u00a0about water conservation. Early on, I&#8217;d probably been on the job three weeks or\u00a0so, they said put a presentation together and go talk to eighth graders at the\u00a0Sternberg Museum. I went. I put something together, a jovial trivia game, and I\u00a0was amazed at the amount of knowledge that these eighth graders &#8230;. They\u00a0knew ways to save water that were pretty innovative that most adults wouldn&#8217;t\u00a0know. That really shows the reinforcement by generations going.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nHays has been known as a place that does well with water. You think part of it is\u00a0because there&#8217;s a water conservation culture here?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nThere is. I definitely wish I could take credit for it. I&#8217;m sure the current city\u00a0commission does too and the current city staff, but it&#8217;s a long time coming. It&#8217;s\u00a0really a cultural part of what makes Hays, Hays. I know I&#8217;ve heard Commissioner\u00a0Phelps talk about in the early 90s when they went out and did educational\u00a0outreach that we just restarted doing last year. When they did it and went out\u00a0and talked to fourth graders, he has people as adults that still come up to him\u00a0and say, &#8220;I went off to college. I was chasing my roommates out of the shower\u00a0and telling them to turn the water off when they brush their teeth.&#8221; It&#8217;s a\u00a0longstanding thing and something that sticks with you, those habits you learn\u00a0early on.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nSo you came out here to do water conservation?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nMm-hmm (affirmative).<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat does it look like when you&#8217;re doing your job? What do you do during the\u00a0day?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nWe have incentive programs to where we can help people through efficient\u00a0technology and you&#8217;re also reinforcing good habits, but especially efficient\u00a0technology, into saving water. There&#8217;s a lot of components to that. Really in Hays\u00a0it&#8217;s about bathrooms, and it&#8217;s about grass. Those are the two things that really\u00a0we focus on. The two most apparent ways to save in anybody&#8217;s household.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nThat&#8217;s really interesting to me because what I&#8217;ve come to understand, that it is\u00a0sort of surprising to me, is there&#8217;s this difference between the perception and\u00a0the reality about water &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nThat&#8217;s right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\n&#8230; in Hays.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nIn Hays, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat&#8217;s that all about?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI often hear people talking about Hays running out of water. Are we going to run\u00a0out of water? There&#8217;s zero chance &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nZero?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<br \/>\n<\/strong> &#8230; that Hays is going to run out of water. Neighboring communities, Russell, Ellis,\u00a0have banned outdoor watering, completely banned it. That would happen way\u00a0before we&#8217;d ever run out of actual water.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nBut they&#8217;re so close to us. How come they have a problem and we don&#8217;t?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nOur sources are more diversified. We don&#8217;t only have Big Creek, which is local\u00a0here in town, our city wells, we have six wells on the Smoky Hill River. We also\u00a0have six Dakota wells, which are deep, deep wells as the water&#8217;s &#8230; We do use\u00a0that as a production well. The water&#8217;s kind of salty. The quality&#8217;s not very good,\u00a0so we blend it with our Smoky water. Having a diversified source makes you\u00a0drought resilient.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nSo we just literally have a different source base?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nRight, yeah. A more diversified source base.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nA more diversified source base.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nYep<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0 \u00a0***PROGRAM BREAK***<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat does that mean for you when you&#8217;re doing your job?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nA majority of our water comes from the Smoky Hill Aquifer and last year, we\u00a0were in a rough spot last year before those June rains hit. The June rains hit. We\u00a0saw some good recharge. Our well fields are in as good of a condition they&#8217;ve\u00a0been since 2011, 2012 probably. The drought&#8217;s certainly not over, and I wouldn&#8217;t\u00a0even think of &#8230; If you look at current drought monitors and drought forecasts,\u00a0they say that drought removal&#8217;s likely for our area. I don&#8217;t &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat&#8217;s really surprising to me is that I would not expect a water conservation\u00a0specialist to say, &#8220;There&#8217;s zero chance we&#8217;re going to run out of water.&#8221; Don&#8217;t\u00a0you run the risk of sending an opposite signal to people?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nBut I don&#8217;t want the perception to be that it&#8217;s &#8230; There&#8217;s a quality of life\u00a0component to water too. People need green spaces. People need swimming\u00a0pools. There&#8217;s a quality of life component to water. I certainly don&#8217;t want to say\u00a0go out there and waste as much as you can. Water your lawn every day and flush\u00a0your toilet three times. I certainly don&#8217;t want to be the proponent of that. But\u00a0the chance that we run out of water to drink, to sustain our community is slim.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nIs it just because Hays has a natural diverse source space, or does it also have a\u00a0lot to do with choices that we&#8217;ve made?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nIt does. Legislatively, there&#8217;s a long line of stuff that Hays has done, that\u00a0California&#8217;s currently doing, that the media sometimes acts like is on the\u00a0forefront. Water wasting violations, getting a ticket when you have water\u00a0running down the sewer from your sprinklers. California&#8217;s just started instituting\u00a0that. Hays has been doing that for 25 years: traditional rebate programs, rebates\u00a0on the toilets, replacing low flow toilets, showerheads, washing machines,\u00a0incentives to plant native plants to curb your outdoor water use. That&#8217;s things\u00a0that Hays has done for a long time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nIf we&#8217;re doing it well, then what was there for you to do when you got here?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nThe programs have been revamped. Right when I came on board, there&#8217;s were\u00a0some plans in place to revamp some of these programs, but we did away with\u00a0some of those incentives programs in the early 90s when that initial &#8230; The &#8217;93\u00a0flood happened, the water source were full again. Then slowly since then, it&#8217;s\u00a0been &#8230; And you get complacent. You look and say, &#8220;Okay, I&#8217;ve got this local\u00a0showerhead program. I&#8217;ve got this washing machine rebate program. That&#8217;s\u00a0good enough. That&#8217;s my conservation programs.&#8221;\u00a0Well, then you get stagnant because the efficient uses of water are about as\u00a0efficient as they can be. There&#8217;s only so many ways to save. Now, you got to look\u00a0for innovative ways. Necessity&#8217;s the mother of invention. You have to look for\u00a0innovative ways to save. One of those is we have a new turf conversion program\u00a0where we&#8217;ll pay residents or commercial customers a dollar per square foot to\u00a0take out thirsty landscape and put in more high plains, taller landscape.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nHow do people come to even know those opportunities are available?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nWe&#8217;ve tried to make both the incentive programs and just water in general\u00a0something it would be hard to ignore in Hays through traditional media outlets,\u00a0through radio, through TV, through internet, through newspaper. We&#8217;ll go talk to\u00a0civic clubs, art walks. We try to be as visible as we can, so it&#8217;s something you\u00a0can&#8217;t really ignore.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nStrong, diverse, reliable sources, effective long-term incentives?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI wouldn&#8217;t call them reliable sources.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nOh, okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nThey&#8217;re certainly not reliable sources.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat &#8230;?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nThey&#8217;re prone to drought, and this area of the state is also prone to drought.\u00a0We&#8217;ve been in a pretty severe drought since 2011 or &#8217;12, so reliability is based\u00a0purely on rainfall. We average 22 inches of rainfall a year. Don&#8217;t quite have\u00a0enough rainfall to sustain those water sources like we did.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nThen what does it mean when we have a winter like we just had, really dry &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nDry winters &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<br \/>\n<\/strong> &#8230; not enough snow?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nDrought winters are as much of a concern in northwest Kansas as dry springs.\u00a0Some needed rainfall we&#8217;ve gotten recently, but dry springs are the biggest\u00a0concern because that&#8217;s when our production starts ramping up. We [don&#8217;t\u00a000:16:31] &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat&#8217;s a dry spring compared to a normal spring, a good spring, whatever we\u00a0need?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nIf we&#8217;re on that 22-inch path annually by April, May, June, then we&#8217;re in pretty\u00a0good shape going into the end of the summer. Now as far as rainfall-wise,\u00a0amount-wise, we&#8217;re looking for enough.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nI guess what I&#8217;m still trying to wrap my head around is this idea that we aren&#8217;t\u00a0going to run out of water. We&#8217;ve made good choices that have put us into this\u00a0position. Then why does it such a big deal that we count? Why do we even\u00a0measure this stuff around here?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nHays is in a unique spot in the state. 105 counties in the state of Kansas, 34 with\u00a0populations over 20,000, still very much a rural state. 29 of those 34 lie east of\u00a0Highway 81. That&#8217;s a traditional dividing line through Concordia, Salina, Wichita,\u00a0kind of a western\/eastern Kansas dividing line, so 29 of those lie on or east of\u00a0there. Eastern Kansas, obviously, is blessed with more surface water. Out of the\u00a0five remaining western Kansas counties, only one does not lie on a major aquifer,\u00a0Ogallala, Equus Beds, Great Bend Prairie and that&#8217;s Ellis County. That puts us in a\u00a0unique geographical spot where we can&#8217;t rely on rainfall only, and our sources\u00a0aren&#8217;t reliable enough to depend on. I know you asked why do we need\u00a0conservation. Through legislative action, banning outdoor watering and, God\u00a0forbid, if we ever had to ration water, but Hays is not going to run out of water.\u00a0It&#8217;s not going to happen.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWe may have to adjust given whatever the realities of the situation are.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nYeah. Last summer we were in a water warning, stage two. Our Smoky wells hit a\u00a0trigger to put us in a water warning. Last summer we wouldn&#8217;t issue new lawn\u00a0permits. We had some stuff that legislatively happens as part of our drought\u00a0response plan. Having a strong drought response plan has been key for Hays. It&#8217;s\u00a0something we keep an eye on weekly, daily. We&#8217;re checking well levels and\u00a0making sure that we&#8217;re still in a good spot.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0 \u00a0 ***PROGRAM BREAK***<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nSee when I think about conservation, I think about intentional, conscious usage,\u00a0but that&#8217;s going to break down with different kinds of users. So who are the\u00a0different kinds of users?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nOn that same point, when I think about conservation &#8230; Some people use the\u00a0term conservation and efficiency kind of synonymously.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat&#8217;s the difference?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nConservation, to me, is a short-term &#8230; we need to save water. I&#8217;m going to save\u00a0water. Becoming water efficient, it&#8217;s a long-term commitment to saving a\u00a0resource that is [particularly 00:22:37] the most important resource we have,\u00a0without a doubt the most important resource we have. I think that sometimes\u00a0those are used synonymously. I&#8217;m not sure they can be, and sometimes that\u00a0does work.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nSometimes you really do need people to actively conserve and get on a program\u00a0for that, but at all times we have to be consciously efficient as much as we can.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nYeah, yeah. That&#8217;s lesson one. A lot of times it&#8217;s reinforcing what we learned as\u00a0kids and good habits and knowing that it&#8217;s a collective effort. You think if I\u00a0change my showerhead from a two gallon a minute to a 1.5 gallon a minute, who\u00a0cares? But if 50 people do that and then 100 people do that, it&#8217;s a collaborative\u00a0effort between them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nHow does this break into economics, whether it&#8217;s the economics of the individual\u00a0residential user versus what it&#8217;s doing to affect taxpayers, business owners? How\u00a0do these things break down for you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nThere&#8217;s always an economic benefit. Rate structure is a pretty effective\u00a0conservation measure. The more water you use, the more expensive it gets.\u00a0People look at ways to start saving then. We have three tiers here in Hays, a\u00a0three-tiered water system, a rate structure. The more you use over your normal\u00a0average, the more expensive it gets. That&#8217;s really charging people for outdoor\u00a0watering usually on lush landscapes that are nonnative plants in an unsuited\u00a0environment. We&#8217;ve got tropical plants and fescue out there. They found in the\u00a0high plains of Kansas we don&#8217;t have the water to supplement that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nIf it&#8217;s a individual taxpaying residential user, but they&#8217;ve traditionally had a really\u00a0big beautiful garden where they grow their own food, and they can it. They do\u00a0things that they need to do for the year, and it&#8217;s really a part of their quality of\u00a0life. What does that mean for them when we get into conservation versus\u00a0efficiency and their own personal economics?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI agree there is a quality of life component to that gardening. That&#8217;s something\u00a0that Hays has looked at in making a change to &#8230; A lot of people, that&#8217;s\u00a0sometimes the only exercise they get especially the older folks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nIt&#8217;s a huge satisfaction.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nIt is. It is. I would much rather see people using water on tomatoes and peppers\u00a0and asparagus and on a vegetable garden then I would see them spraying on an\u00a0acre of fescue.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nAre there priorities in this tiered structure as for who uses and for what and&#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI would say those people that hit in that second conservation tier, that outdoor\u00a0what you&#8217;re keeping an eye on? Water use tier, are the people that need the probably most outreach and need\u00a0the most assistance in. That&#8217;s why we have this turf conversion, &#8216;Cash for Grass&#8217;\u00a0program where we&#8217;re paying people to get rid of this grass because that not only\u00a0has a benefit long-term for them on their water bill, it has a long term benefit for\u00a0us delaying the inevitable having to go out and find a new water source.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nBut there are things that we just can&#8217;t avoid around here. I mean farming is\u00a0huge. They&#8217;ve got to have the water. Again, what are the kinds of choices that\u00a0we have to make in order to make sure that&#8217;s all &#8230;?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nAg is a huge economic driver in the state. Everybody knows that. But municipal\u00a0use is such a small part of the overall water use in the state. Sometimes you get\u00a0blinders on about municipal water use and the difference you&#8217;re making when &#8230;\u00a0It&#8217;s just a drop in the bucket in the big scheme of things. I would say at a state\u00a0level at some point there&#8217;ll need to be changes made to the way water&#8217;s\u00a0allocated.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat&#8217;s the difference between what&#8217;s happening to us and what&#8217;s happening in\u00a0California, because that&#8217;s horrible?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI think that&#8217;s a testament to prior city officials that saw the need for a drought\u00a0response plan and executed it and followed every step. I think California, it&#8217;s too\u00a0late. It could be too late. They say they have months of supply left, so they&#8217;re in a\u00a0rough spot, and they might not ever recover without some drastic, serious looks\u00a0in the mirror about growing almonds, which is the most water intensive crop you\u00a0can grow and [crosstalk 00:27:53] &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nSo they will literally have to change their economy and &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI would say they&#8217;re going to have to make some pretty major changes to meet\u00a0the demands. The governor says we need a 25% decrease in water usage over\u00a0the next 12 months. Without some major changes that going to be really hard.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nIs there anything we need to change? I know you said that we&#8217;ve done a lot, and\u00a0we&#8217;re in a good position because of that now, but what&#8217;s the future? How does\u00a0that play out for what we need to be doing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI would say that the R9 Ranch in Edwards County is a water source the city&#8217;s\u00a0owned since the early 90s. The Water Transfer Act that would allow us to\u00a0transfer that water from basin to basin has never been used in its current form.\u00a0There&#8217;s wheels in motion right now to start that, some behind the door stuff.\u00a0Really my goal is not to deal with R9, it&#8217;s to deal with Smoky water, Big Creek\u00a0water and help people, through incentive programs, through educational\u00a0programs, conserve the water we have now.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0 \u00a0 ***PROGRAM BREAK***<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat I think about when I hear this also is I think about California. I think about\u00a0this perception versus reality out here. I mean I&#8217;m relieved to know it&#8217;s nowhere\u00a0near that kind of situation, but I also think about the global issue. It just seems\u00a0like there&#8217;s a big argument going on about what&#8217;s related to climate change,\u00a0whether that exists. Is there any part of things that we see globally that is related\u00a0to what we experience here?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI do think so. I&#8217;ve seesawed on climate change. I don&#8217;t think you could ignore the\u00a0majority of scientists who say the Earth is warming, and we are probably playing\u00a0a part in doing that. I certainly do think that that plays a part in our extreme\u00a0weather patterns. There&#8217;s been studies put out that say that we&#8217;re in a pretty\u00a0long dry period. That 22 inches of annual precipitation we get might turn into 16,\u00a0and that&#8217;s the new norm. That&#8217;s not far fetched. If you look at tree ring data that\u00a0some people have looked at on prior long droughts, they happen. It&#8217;s not the\u00a0three to five to seven year droughts. It&#8217;s the 10, 15, 20, 30, 100 year droughts\u00a0that do happen worldwide, so I certainly don&#8217;t want to sound the alarm bell and\u00a0tell everybody that we&#8217;re in that kind of spot, but it&#8217;s something to think about, a\u00a0mega drought.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhen you read these studies, and I&#8217;m sure you keep up with the science in order\u00a0to do your job and try to sift through these things, but is there anything that you\u00a0read about and then you look and see the problems around here and think, &#8220;See,\u00a0we&#8217;re already seeing some of that?&#8221;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nYeah. I don&#8217;t know if I necessarily think that&#8217;s the case.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nDo you even think about problems that way in your job day to day?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI do think I have a certain amount of just blinders on when it comes to &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nEvery professional does probably.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nYeah. It&#8217;s hard not to, when day to day you&#8217;re dealing with the incentive\u00a0programs and educational programs, you lose sight of the 30,000 foot vantage\u00a0point because you&#8217;re just now on the shoreline, and you lose sight of the\u00a0shoreline sometimes. I certainly think that there&#8217;s things we can learn from\u00a0California, and there&#8217;s things California can learn from us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat does a good water citizen look like? What are they doing routinely?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI think being cognizant. Like I said early, it&#8217;s reinforcing the habits you learned\u00a0when you were in third grade or three years old. Shut the water off when you\u00a0brush your teeth. Take a short shower. Don&#8217;t waste water. It&#8217;s reinforcing of that,\u00a0but it&#8217;s about being cognizant of how much water you&#8217;re using. You can come up\u00a0with 100 different tips on how to save. Everybody knows if you throw a pair in\u00a0jeans in the washer and that&#8217;s all you&#8217;re going to wash &#8230; waste. But some people\u00a0aren&#8217;t cognizant of that. They think, &#8220;Well, I need those jeans for tomorrow.\u00a0That&#8217;s all I care about.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nI&#8217;m just going to wash the dishes that are in the dishwasher and run it now even\u00a0though it&#8217;s half full.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nRight, exactly. We offer ways through incentive programs that people can save\u00a0for residential toilets and showerheads and faucet aerators for every application,\u00a0washing machines.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhere would people go to find out the range of incentives that are available\u00a0here in Hays?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nhaysusa.com is our website. If you go there, click on &#8216;water conservation.&#8217; It&#8217;s on\u00a0the right side of the screen. That&#8217;ll take you through the whole gamut. We&#8217;ve got\u00a0some water saving tips: ways to save water outdoors; ways to save water in the\u00a0bathroom; if you have a pool. Once again, it&#8217;s a quality of life thing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nThe issue of conservation and efficiency, it&#8217;s partly an ordinary mindfulness of\u00a0what were using, how were using it, but it&#8217;s also partly a long-term recognition.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nYeah, efficient technology. There&#8217;s efficiency built in by government mandate. By\u00a0&#8217;92, the EPA said we can&#8217;t have five gallon per flush toilets any more. Now I\u00a0guarantee there&#8217;s still some out there, but the new ones can&#8217;t be that. So there\u00a0is effective limits of conservation. You can&#8217;t conserve your way into growth. Now\u00a0that&#8217;s where the R9 comes in. That will be our growth opportunity.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat, I don&#8217;t know, two or three things could someone hearing our conversation\u00a0think, &#8220;Ah, I could do that.&#8221; What could they do?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nFirst of all, being cognizant of water use. Number two, plant native plants. Plant\u00a0stuff that&#8217;s been here, can survive here. [crosstalk 00:36:26] &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nSomething that belongs here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nSomething that belongs here. Fescue is a popular landscaping grass in Hays. It is\u00a0nonnative. It&#8217;s ill suited. We simply don&#8217;t have enough sustainable rainfall to\u00a0keep it alive, to keep it lush, to keep it growing. Buffalo grass has been here for\u00a0eons. It&#8217;s a native turf. It looks nice if it&#8217;s maintained. You can save not only on\u00a0the water, you can save on fertilizing, you can save on mowing. It truly is the\u00a0[inaudible 00:36:57] for native grass. You don&#8217;t really need to mow it. The more\u00a0you take care of it, the worse it gets. People say it&#8217;s weedy. Well, you take care\u00a0of it too much. Leave it alone and it won&#8217;t do anything. It&#8217;ll be just fine.\u00a0I would save thirdly, efficient technology. You talk about good habits, native\u00a0plants and efficient technology. Water saving technology&#8217;s come a long way.\u00a0People think a toilet&#8217;s a toilet. Well, when you go down to a plumbing supply\u00a0place and tell them a toilet&#8217;s a toilet, they&#8217;ve got a book of them this thick. Those\u00a0can cut your water use down. The bathroom is the place for high saving potential\u00a0without a doubt in conserving.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat about someone who&#8217;s running a business? Because a lot of time when\u00a0you&#8217;re running a business, you have to fulfill your contracts. You just got to do\u00a0what you got to do. Where should they be looking first?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI would say even if it&#8217;s just a self water audit, it would be a way of looking how\u00a0you&#8217;re currently using water. If there&#8217;s ways that you could stop doing &#8230; Maybe\u00a0instead of hosing the floor down, you broom it, or you find some other way to\u00a0clean it, a wet broom or something else. There&#8217;s ways to get around the water\u00a0waste. It certainly does &#8230; manufacturing processes do take a certain amount of\u00a0water. It&#8217;s sometimes unavoidable, and it&#8217;s [inaudible 00:38:33] one of those &#8230;\u00a0growth.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat about our farmers? Anything they need to be thinking about changing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI have a pet peeve on the end guns on the irrigation pivots because that water&#8217;s\u00a0spraying out there 20 feet. It&#8217;s not doing nothing. It&#8217;s not touching anything.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nOr just losing a lot.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nIt&#8217;s losing it. But I&#8217;m a municipal guy not an ag guy. Those guys know &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nThat makes sense.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<br \/>\n<\/strong> &#8230; much more about their fields than I do, so I&#8217;ll trust their expertise.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0 \u00a0***PROGRAM BREAK***<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nIf someone really does step over the line and they become a bad water citizen,\u00a0what happens? Who&#8217;s keeping track of that? Do we have water cops out there or\u00a0what?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nWell, no.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nNo.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nWell, kind of yes and no. The city does keep an eye on fluctuations in water use.\u00a0If you have certain percentage fluctuation in your month-to-month water use &#8230;\u00a0We recently made a change to our utility bill. I don&#8217;t know if you noticed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWell, my wife would. She pays them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nThere&#8217;s now a graphical representation, a quick look graph. You can see high\u00a0months, low months. You see in comparison how you looked last year compared\u00a0to this year. Sometimes that&#8217;s a good indicator that, &#8220;Hey, maybe I have a leak.\u00a0My toilet&#8217;s leaking. Maybe I have an underground sprinkler system leak.\u00a0Something could be going on.&#8221; Sometimes the clerk&#8217;s office will flag those\u00a0people, and then provide a list. Then we&#8217;ll make contact with them and see if we\u00a0can help them out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWould you be the person who goes and contacts them?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nUsually they&#8217;ll give them a phone call. Then usually they&#8217;ll pass that information\u00a0on to me, and we&#8217;ll talk about [changing 00:43:40] habits. What kind of\u00a0technology are they using? Are they water an acre of grass? Are they on a corner\u00a0lot? Do they have a daycare facility with a lot of people in and out of the house\u00a0all day? A lot of those could affect your daily water consumption.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat happens if somebody just does not want to cooperate?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nThat&#8217;s their right, I guess. Like I say, one of the biggest enforcers of the\u00a0conservation tactic is that pricing strategy. You got to hit them where it hurts.\u00a0Sometimes that&#8217;s in the pocketbooks. Sometimes that&#8217;s not. But that&#8217;s a pretty\u00a0effective conservation [tactic 00:44:20].<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nThat&#8217;s why we&#8217;ve created this pricing structure and the public policy to\u00a0incentivize people to cooperate even if they don&#8217;t want to on some level.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI&#8217;ll tell you what, I think the message in Hays never falls on deaf ears, ever. I think\u00a0everybody&#8217;s engaged about it. Everybody&#8217;s interested in it. It&#8217;s something that&#8217;s\u00a0been in the forefront in Hays for a long time. I think people are interested in it.\u00a0You can talk about convention centers or you can talk about a lot of other things\u00a0that go on, your university, or things that happen around town, but when water\u00a0comes up, people &#8230; especially people who remember &#8217;92 when Hays was in a\u00a0pretty tough spot before. People remember that time. It strikes a chord with\u00a0them.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nFor you, what&#8217;s the most satisfying part of what you do?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nWe have an educational outreach program, like I said earlier, that Eber Phelps\u00a0talked about. I think going out &#8230; We talked to every fourth grader in the district\u00a0last year. We gave them a little backpack. We gave them some books and stuff.\u00a0We had fun with it. That was a rewarding &#8230; When you do it with fourth graders,\u00a0you get that nag factor. They&#8217;re going to tell on brother and sister. They&#8217;re going\u00a0to tell their mom and dad, &#8220;Hey, get out of the shower.&#8221; We gave them a shower\u00a0timer. You know what I mean? You got to get that nag factor from a kid that&#8217;s\u00a0ten years old. That was pretty rewarding to &#8230; Once again, the water wiseness of\u00a0how much they knew about the water cycle. It&#8217;s a testament to the teachers in\u00a0the district and the Hays&#8217; culture.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nSo the message is out there &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nIt&#8217;s out there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<br \/>\n<\/strong> &#8230; meaning it seems to be deeply into the Hays&#8217; culture.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nIt does. I think it is. It&#8217;s something that we made hard to ignore whether it&#8217;s just\u00a0you pound people over the head with it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhat other message would you want to send to people?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI think now we&#8217;re in spring, spring season&#8217;s here, I&#8217;ve seen sprinkler systems\u00a0running around town in the rain and &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nJust automatic stuff that people just don&#8217;t pay attention to.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nYeah. A lot of these people have their sprinkler systems set for the heat of the\u00a0July on a 75-degree day, watering every day. You&#8217;re doing more harm than good.\u00a0Deeply and infrequently is the message on watering.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nDeeply and infrequently.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nYep, yep.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nIs it better at night?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nIt&#8217;s better at night. Late night, early morning, before the sun comes up is usually\u00a0the best time to get the most benefit than &#8230; If you water in the evening before it\u00a0gets dark you run some fungus issues and some others issues with your lawn\u00a0that you don&#8217;t want. Deeply, infrequently, that&#8217;s a tough message to get out\u00a0there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWe need people to be mindful, and when people become mindful, where can\u00a0they go to find out more about what they could do?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nhaysusa.com is our website. We have tips, tricks. We have other ways on stuff\u00a0you can do to save water, incentive programs. They can always give me a call,\u00a0come down and talk to me. I&#8217;d talk about it for as long as you need to. It&#8217;s an\u00a0interesting topic to me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nDid they put in a priority of, &#8220;Do these five things first and then &#8230;&#8221; Or is it just a\u00a0range of best practices?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nIt&#8217;s a range of best practices. I certainly think, once again, bathrooms and lawns\u00a0are places people can save the most. That where you would focus first. Efficient\u00a0technology, cognizant habits and smart landscaping tools.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nFive years from now, what could be different that&#8217;s better?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nIn five years, I still think Hays will be the municipal efficiency leader in the state,\u00a0no doubt, because of the groundwork that&#8217;s been set for many years. What five\u00a0years brings? I don&#8217;t know. That&#8217;s a good question.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWell, who knows where it will take us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nWhether another water source will be developed, whether those gears will have\u00a0got in full speed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nIt&#8217;s obvious we won&#8217;t be able to control larger things like weather patterns and\u00a0what kind of stressors that creates, but we do have a culture that can respond to\u00a0that and that is mindful of that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI hope so. That&#8217;s refreshing. When I came here, I knew &#8230; I started in 2000- &#8230; in\u00a0the middle of this drought, I started this job. I knew it was going to be stressful. I\u00a0think I underlaid it a little bit. I thought, &#8220;Well, you know, a lot of people there\u00a0already know it all. It&#8217;ll be preaching a message they already know.&#8221; A lot of\u00a0them already do, but we do have some incentive programs, like our &#8216;Cash for\u00a0Grass.&#8217; It&#8217;s the first one east of the Rockies, north of Texas. This is [crosstalk\u00a000:49:27].<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nSo Hays is a good place to do what you do.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nGroundbreaking stuff.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nWell, I&#8217;ve enjoyed the conversation. I&#8217;m really thrilled and delighted that you\u00a0were able to come and &#8230;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nI appreciate it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\n&#8230; hang out with me a little bit. I love the good news.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nGood.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nIt sounds like so much better than what we&#8217;re often thinking.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nIt&#8217;s certainly not doom and gloom. We need to be careful, but it&#8217;s certainly not\u00a0doom and gloom.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nOkay. Well, thanks a lot.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nThank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Hamlin:<\/strong><br \/>\nAppreciate you coming out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jason:<\/strong><br \/>\nYep, thank you.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dr. Hamlin: Jason Reigel, water conservation specialist for the city of Hays. Jason: That&#8217;s right. Dr. Hamlin: How does somebody get into water? Jason: Water&hellip; <\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":142,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"video","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[6101],"tags":[1295,394,2891,94],"class_list":["post-20162","post","type-post","status-publish","format-video","hentry","category-talking-democracy","tag-darrell-hamlin","tag-hays","tag-jason-riegel","tag-water","post_format-video"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[],"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/tigermedianet.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/20162","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/tigermedianet.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/tigermedianet.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/tigermedianet.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/142"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/tigermedianet.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=20162"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/tigermedianet.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/20162\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":20182,"href":"https:\/\/tigermedianet.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/20162\/revisions\/20182"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/tigermedianet.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=20162"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/tigermedianet.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=20162"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/tigermedianet.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=20162"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}